The Writing and Marketing Show
The Writing and Marketing Show
Exploring Dystopian Fiction and Publishing Insights with Debut Author Marty M. McNair
Get ready for a thrilling journey as we sit down with Marty McNair, debut author of the riveting dystopian novel, Island of Ruin. McNair's fascination with dystopian fiction, her inspirations, and the journey of her protagonist, Jasmine, are laid bare in this intriguing conversation. The struggle against oppression, the power of resilience and the art of creating an immersive world, are just a handful of the topics we'll be sinking our teeth into.
Turning the tables in the second half, we delve into the fascinating process of publishing. From her experiences with publishing "Island of Ruin", to the significance of crafting a captivating title and cover design, there's a wealth of information for voracious readers and budding authors alike. McNair also gives us a glimpse into her writing process, her debut author challenges, and invaluable tips for those embarking on their own writing journey. Tune in for this vibrant exploration of dystopian fiction and publishing!
Hi and welcome to the Writing and Marketing Show brought to you by author Wendy H Jones. This show does exactly what it says on the tin. It's jam-packed with interviews, advice, hints, tips and news to help you with the business of writing. It's all wrapped up in one lively podcast. So it's time to get on with the show. And welcome to episode 182 of the Writing and Marketing Show with author entrepreneur Wendy H Jones. As always, it's a pleasure to be with you again and to have you join me here on the Writing and Marketing Show.
Speaker 1:Today I'm going to be talking about life as a debut author and writing dystopian fiction with debut author Marty McNair, and more about Marty in a moment. So what's been going on in my life? Well, I've been in the States for the last three months and, as we record this, I have one week left. So a week from today, as I record, I will be on my way back. A week from today, as you listen to it. If you listen to it on the correct day, then I will be back in the UK and wending my weary way from London up to Scotland, and I've had a whale of a time. And more about that and what it did for my author career, possibly next week's episode. So I've got, I'm off to Graceland yes, graceland, that is the home of Elvis. I'm off to Memphis, tennessee, and I'm doing a book signing at Graceland not the mansion itself, because obviously you couldn't have a number of authors and readers milling around in there, but it is in the mansion's function centre. They've got a hotel and a function suite there. So I will be on the Graceland estate doing a book signing and I can absolutely assure you that when I started this 10 years ago, I did not for one minute think I would be doing a book signing at Graceland. But I am and I cannot wait. So I will tell you all about it in next week's episode.
Speaker 1:So before we introduce Marty, I would like to say that, yes, it is a pleasure to do this for you every week. However, it does take time out of my writing. If you would like to support this time, then you can do so by going to patreoncom. Forward slash Wendy H Jones, that's P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com. Forward slash Wendy H Jones and you can support me for the price of a tear coffee per month, and I would be very grateful.
Speaker 1:So what of Marty? Well, residing in the heart of Burns territory in south west Scotland, marty M McNair is an award winning Scottish author. Recently, marty has returned from a successful authors tour in Virginia America with her debut novel, island of Ruin, selling all of the books shipped out. Island of Ruin is the first book in her trilogy Ruin or Redemption, with book two, rebels of Ruin, scheduled for a Christmas release. Marty has fully immersed herself in the realm of writing, currently holding the role of vice president for the Scottish Association of Writers. She is also in partnership with Wendy H Jones and Shoma Mitre in their company Oz Scott Publishing and Retreats, and has recently taken on a new role as copywriter for the Writers Narrative magazine. Marty's passion for literary engagement extends further as an active member of the Air Writers Club and History Writers. She is constantly seeking meaningful connections with writers and readers worldwide. So, without further ado, let's get on with the show and hear from Marty, and we have Susan with us. Welcome, susan. How are you today?
Speaker 2:Hi, yes, I'm very good, and thank you again for having me. Wendy, it's lovely to be here.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you for being here. I really appreciate you taking the time because I know you are a busy lady. You're busy writing yet another novel. My goodness, you are prolific, that's for sure. So where are you? Let us know where you are in the world.
Speaker 2:So I am in South Bay, scotland. I am in a little hamlet called Chris Hands, and right now I am in my son's bedroom, simply because someone might come in while we are in the middle of an interview and I don't want there to be any noise. Wow so the safest place is up the stairs and out of the way.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. I'm glad that you've thought about us and you've moved out of the way, but what's the weather like where you are?
Speaker 2:It's very dull. It hasn't rained much today, but it has been very dull and pretty miserable.
Speaker 1:Well, it's sunny here in Virginia, but it's still a nip in the air. I'll have to say I'll be back in sunny Scotland next week. Back to the rain. In the cold, you'll need to rumble, eva. Let's have this interview, which will take us all away from the cold and the rain, because it's going to be magic in here. So thank you for taking the time. My first question is always can you tell us about your book?
Speaker 2:So Island of Ruin is told through the eyes of my protagonist, jasmine, and the plotline reflects the struggle of her living under an oppressive regime and her quest for freedom and self-discovery. Jasmine's transformation comes through finding a mysterious old woman who symbolises the possibility of Jasmine breaking free from the constraints of her oppressive society. The theme of resilience, hope and human spirit and the ability to endure transcends all the challenging circumstances and it helps drive the plot forward as Jasmine navigates her way through several encounters. That's not very nice.
Speaker 1:Well, I know it's a brilliant book and I mean for a debut. It's exceptional. So you know. That's why I knew I wanted to interview you for this show. So I mean dystopian fiction. It's not something I read all the time. So can you share your inspiration for writing dystopian fiction and what drew you to the genre for your debut novel?
Speaker 2:Well, I always had a deep appreciation for horrors, thrillers, crime, crime novels and stories that tested the metal of all characters. This voidiness for such a type of story led me to George Orwell 1984 in his Animal Farm, as well as Aldous Huxley's A Brave New World. Also titles such as the Handmaid's Tale and the Hunger Games. All these stories captivated me with the exploration of human resilience and facing challenging circumstances, and I was always captivated by such narrative arcs and finding myself more and more being pulled into a dystopian setting. Landscapes where there's alternative realities fascinated me, and I was always told right what you know. So I think for me, although I don't live in such a dystopian, you know, and thankfully never had encountered some of the problems that you see dystopian characters going through. So I tend to write what I enjoy rather than what I know, and I think that's why I love creating these horrors and creating the hazardous situations for my characters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, you're right, it can be challenging to live in a dystopian society and I'm glad as well that I'm not living in it. I don't think I was cut out for that, to be honest. I was cut out for comfort, but it does give you, in terms of novel writing, it does give you a certain freedom. You know that we can explore a bit further on, really, but before we get to that it's then writing a novel is a significant undertaking. It really is. We all know that the listeners to this show Could you describe your writing process and how you managed to stay motivated throughout the journey to completing a debut novel Well?
Speaker 2:a Patek. Eileen de Bruin is an example. This is a process that spanned a considerable length of time. I first entered, you know, my first draft of 7000 words into the Young Adult Competition for the Scottish Association of Writers, and that was about 13 or 14 years ago, and so since then the book is only now being published. It was after that particular conference that I began to truly learn the craft of writing and then started to make changes to better the manuscript.
Speaker 2:Obviously, family, working life, writing for me was only a hobby, and so it was only done any time a bit of spare time was allowed. However, I kept writing other stories, entering competitions and then, in the last year or so, dedicated more of my time to finally complete and get a final draft of Eileen de Bruin. Once I was happy and confident with it, you know, then obviously went for publication. There were many things that did keep me motivated, some such as the love of the craft and the need to write down all stories that were running through my head. Probably a huge motivator was the many wonderful friends that I've met, including yourself, wendy, that have helped me through my writing journey and helping me get to the stage that I am today. So, you know, I'd say that the love of our writing community as well, and all the knowledge and encouragement that offers, was a great motivator and, to be honest, I don't think there's anything that I would rather be doing than writing novels and stories and trying to, you know, get my ideas out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, writing is such an amazing privilege really and to be able to do it and, you know, stay motivated for 13 years, my goodness. And yes, I agree with you, I don't think you can do that without the support of others around you. There's a myth that all writers are in isolation, but really and truly, we're all surrounded by other writers who cheer us on and support us and keep us going when we're demotivated. So, yeah, you make a good point there. There must be people in the world today that think they're living in dystopian societies, because dystopian worlds often reflect social and political commentary. How did real world events or issues influence the creation of your dystopian societies and its themes? If it did, in all fairness?
Speaker 2:Well, for me that is a very good question, because from a young age, I was always politically motivated and I also loved reading about history, and so when you combine the two, you could find many topics and twist them, you know, take them into a context and turn them into a dystopian setting just from what we know of the past.
Speaker 2:And it's like what you said, what you touched on. Yeah, you only need to look at the state of the world today and actually ask yourself are we living a dystopian reality right now? Take the COVID lockdowns, the continual wars, injustice and oppression and the effects of climate change. There's also a thing right now that I'm really looking into, which is the birth of smart cities and put that long tail for the population, the advances in technology and how this impacts the elderly and those unable to afford them. So there's loads of things that you know influences dystopian settings in the current world and in past history. So yet I draw in all aspects of that and you know I'm always digging deep to see oh, you know, this could work, that could work, and it always comes from something that has happened or something that's going on.
Speaker 1:Now I agree. I mean, you're having a love of politics and what's going on in society can also can often help you shape what you write, whatever it is, but particularly when it comes to dystopian fantasy. So I'm curious as to what challenges of any did you face in the publishing process as a debut author and how you overcame them.
Speaker 2:Well, probably I mean, you could be here all night probably answering that question.
Speaker 2:So probably, as a brief summary, my biggest issue was time. There was never enough hours in the day or weeks you know days in the week which allowed the writing process to flow, so that made writing more difficult and it felt bitty, you know, sometimes having to pick oh, you know, I didn't look at that manuscript, I'm just looking at it now in a last sort last week. So yeah, I think for me the biggest issue was time and then having a job where I sat all day at a computer and you would come home at night to start your writing process. Your brain just turned too much. So that as well was maybe too many hours looking at a screen, not having enough time or needed refresher ideas. So for me I think that is it. If someone was to say to me what was the biggest challenge, I would say I never had enough time. However, I have now reduced my working hours, which will hopefully free up time and hopefully you never know many best sellers will follow.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Yeah, time just disappears, doesn't it? Like it's stand through your fingers? There it is one minute and there it is gone the next. Yeah, seriously, I'd like to take it just slightly further and go. Can you discuss your overall experience with publishing your book and have you got any tips for aspiring authors in that regard?
Speaker 2:Contact Wendy each Jones. To be fair, you would agree to help Wendy. If it was me, for your encouragement and everything that you taught me along the process, I'd still be playing around with the manuscript and changing it and it would never be ready and it would never be good enough, and I'm still probably a bit weary of the whole self-publishing process. But I think that is because I've only done one book. I've only completed one novel at the moment and you know what I actually published in out there. Probably, as I do more and obviously with your help and you know the wonderful writing community that I'm involved in, my confidence will grow and I'll learn more and more and become more confident.
Speaker 2:With regards to tips, probably one of the biggest ones is never give up, because there are so many times people start you know I speak to people they start an oval and before you know it they're not even halfway through, but they can't carry on. So never give up, no matter how much the voice inside your head tells you that you're not worthy of completing the manuscript and getting your stories told. No matter how many obstacles come in your way. Keep going, and I would encourage everyone to join a local writing group or find friends within their writing community to help and support them, because the knowledge and support that you are giving from other writers is invaluable and the more you involve yourself in the writing community, the more you'll learn and the more you'll grow as a writer. So that would be the aspiring tips. I would sorry, the tips for the aspiring authors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. Never give up, because everybody gets stuck in the messy middle, the muddle in the middle. Everybody thinks I can't write this book. You could have written 200 books, it could be on your first one. You get stuck in the messy middle, which is like wading through treacle for everybody, and that's when you start to doubt yourself. I'm rubbish at this, so never give up and you feel a fake.
Speaker 1:You feel a fake, you do. Everybody feels. Every single writer in the world has imposter syndrome and they think that this is going to be the book that will crash their career. Anyway, moving swiftly onwards, before we make writers feel they have to have imposter syndrome, get you done if you don't have it. I know you've said about other commitments and things, but as a new author, you're saying you had to juggle writing with other commitments. What strategies did you use to find the time and balance to work on your novel?
Speaker 2:Oh, strategies was. It was basically any spare time you had to write your own. You know, this was back when I was working full time. I had a very demanding job, the long hours, and you know so the strategy was right.
Speaker 2:When you can, any any spend minute that you had and, as I say, working along the coming home putting on your laptop, it could be a struggle but I always loved when I got to Friday after a long hard week, getting the dinner made, you know, the dishes out the way, opening my laptop, having a glass of wine, and I would sit there and write.
Speaker 2:And, lucky for me, you know, I have a wonderful husband and two wonderful kids that helped, you know, with the dishes and helped with the other stuff to free up my time. And I always remember sitting in my laptop working away and Martin making the comment oh murder, she wrote, you know so. So, yeah, basically my strategy was right. When you can and try and write quality, you know, sometimes you would pick up your laptop and if it wasn't coming and it wasn't flowing, you would think you know I'm writing, you know I'm not doing well, time to stop. So it was me just about when you could write. It was about obviously having to try and get quality words onto the paper, words that flowed and you know made sense and you know that was progressing your story forward.
Speaker 1:No, I would agree with you right when you can, because it's often making a choice between picking up your phone and scrolling through endless Facebook, twitter and every other social media and I'm not getting any of those social media sites. I'm just saying it can be a time suck and it's a choice between that and writing. It's better to pick up your laptop and write and do that. Turn the television off. Turn the television off. I agree totally. You know there's only so much home and away and you can watch Emmerdale. So the cover and the title of a book are critical in attracting readers. How did you come up with a title and cover design for your novel and how does it reflect the story's essence?
Speaker 2:So titles for me, as you know, wendy, is a touchy subject. My original title was Children of Rune, which I didn't realise was an epic trilogy and a sci-fi series. However, this led me to changing my title to Island of Rune, and which, hindsight, I actually prefer. I think Island of Rune serves as a metaphor for the characters in my book. They're emotional and physical states. The title for me reflects the inner turmoil and struggles which I have placed the characters in, basically because the island is called Rune that is the name of the actual island and obviously because a lot of these characters in my book, they have a life in Rune. So you know, basically, that's where I get the title thrown. At this point I feel I have to give a big, huge shout out and a wonderful thanks to Jessica Bale. She's an amazing cover designer and you know again, as you know, wendy, she went beyond the call of duty, helping me change, you know, the title to the title from Children of Rune to Island of Rune.
Speaker 2:How Jessica came up with the book cover was she asked me for three scenes from the book, so I gave her. I always knew what I had in mind. In my mind there was a picture that I envisaged. I gave Jessica three scenes from the book and she came back with three pictures and the minute I saw the first picture I thought you've captured it and you've basically for me, even looking at the cover. Well, you've read the book, wendy. I don't know if you would agree, but looking at that cover, jessica has managed to depict the theme, the mood and the. You know the elements in the book and I love my cover. I couldn't have had a better one and even though it was something similar, I envisaged it was not half as good as what Jessica produced for me. So yeah, I really love it and I feel it captures the essence and the story of my book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would have to agree with you. The cover is outstanding and Jessica got it from the get go, absolutely 100%, perfect. So Jessica Bell of Jessica Bell Designs Guys, she's outstanding. If you're looking for a cover designer, 100%. So you're doing. It's a debut novel, but it explores unique world building and complex characters. Can you share your approach to creating a dystopian setting and developing memorable characters?
Speaker 2:For this question. I'll go back to my love for history and politics, so I'll bring this back in if you don't mind. I remember reading many years ago the aftermath of Hiroshima and the consequences that led to the dropping of the bomb. I'm also reading of people like Pol Pot in his regime in 1975 in Cambodia, where he oppressed his people. Even today, as well as looking at the past, there's so much injustice and unhuman atrocities that happens all around the world. It's perfect, if you like, information on how a dystopian world can be created, because dystopian comes mostly from things going wrong. I look to create the second. These are the articles I read, the online historical facts of what it was like, because even though it's dystopian and made up, you still want to make it a real world for your reader. That is basically where a lot of my instances, like Hiroshima and Cambodia, is, where a lot of my world setting comes from, because it's a world being reborn from bad elements that have happened.
Speaker 2:The characters how do I engage with my characters and make them believable and real and memorable? I become each character as I'm writing, so if I'm in the head of Jasmine, I think, how would I cope with this situation? Do I like it? Is this fair? Can I get out of it? How do I get out of it? Then I flip the coin and I go to my antagonist as well as my pro-targetist and say how would I feel if I lost my power? How would I feel if those who I oppressed as my own charge? How do I subdue them? How do I keep what I have? So, basically, to form the characters, I put myself in every one of their heads and I take it from there and I hope that the storylines flow. Contrary to my husband's belief, I am not schizophrenic, even though I've got all these characters.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's how I do the characters. I try and place myself in your shoes and think how will I react to each situation that I create when I do it along?
Speaker 1:the way. It's a great way of doing it. But yeah, getting that close to your characters can really help, so that's a great tip, really. Dystopian fiction often serves as a lens through which readers can explore pressing societal issues. What messages or themes are you hoping readers will take away from your novel?
Speaker 2:So not just in the novel, but through the Field Traveller J. When did the Field Traveller J has completed, I hope to cover an array of subjects that would make people look inward and think about their humanity towards how we treat other people, how we can become better people in one society. It doesn't matter your colour, your creature, religion, whether you're from Mars, whether you're from wherever. We all have a right and an equal right to be people of the world and to help others in the world that are failing.
Speaker 2:Climate change is a huge issue. You find out through the trilogy that climate change is a big factor for my dystopian setting. So I would like people to take question their morality on how do we make the earth a better place without pollution and without the things that's happening to the oceans and without the ozone layer becoming thinner. So there's a whole load of them issues there that I feel that I would like people to look back and say you know I could learn from that and you know we can do better. No matter who we are, we can always do better and we can always meet the world and help meet the world a better place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great messages really, and I mean you're right about the climate change. We really need to be thinking about that, and bringing it out in fiction is a way of making everyone think about it, particularly young people as well, who are very aware of these things, you know so debut novelists they've often got incredible stories behind their publishing journeys. Can you share a memorable anecdote or experience from your journey as a new author that you think would inspire or resonate with fellow writers?
Speaker 2:Well, again, it was a brilliant question and I, you know, I debated this question for a good 10 minutes before I actually decided to put pen to paper and think this is the question and how I'm going to answer it.
Speaker 2:So, if you don't mind, I'm going to give you a quote and basically it is the first draft is just you telling yourself the story, and that's Terry Cratchett. And the reason I chose that was because and you'll be able to resonate with me in this one, wendy, having done a hundred drafts of Island of Rune, I told the story to myself so many times and I changed it so many times. Sometimes I need it worse, sometimes I need it better, and hopefully the one that's now published is the right one, the right story to tell. I guess what I'm trying to say is you know and I hope this is the thing that will resonate with fellow writers Don't hold on to your manuscript for what seems like forever, because I did. You know, and you know, release your manuscript when it's ready, set it free and let others enjoy the you know the process.
Speaker 1:If you have what, and that's, that's a really good point, because we can often think, oh, I just need to do another bit of tit-of-a-ton and another bit of tweaking, and another bit of polishing and another bit of and you know, eventually a diamond has to come out and it has to emerge and be put into the world.
Speaker 2:I think you were probably ready for shooting me, you know, by the end of your discussion. Publish it, publish it, publish it. So, so you get it out there and let people read it and you know, don't hold on to it.
Speaker 1:And that's when you discover they all love it. So it's great because your book is doing extremely well. What would be your top three tips for anyone starting out in the writing journey?
Speaker 2:Top three tips. Number one, I would say join a writing club. And a nurse herself in the writing community. We've already discussed how valuable the knowledge and the, the community and the. You know the encouragement is there. Yeah, definitely number one join a writing club.
Speaker 2:Number two, just what we said don't be scared to share your work with others and trust and accept their feedback. If they are true friends, they'll advise you what works and doesn't work in your story. Remember, we know, as writers, we know the story in our heads, but someone else reading it can pick up blips that we don't see, which would potentially pull another reader, you know, out of a story. So don't be scared to share and don't be scared of the constructive criticism that you'll receive back. So that would be number two. Number three again, look what we said earlier keep going, even when you feel the world is against it and nothing seems to work out in your favor. It's worth it when you come to those two lovely words after having written thousands and thousands of words, those special two words, the end you know, and you'll feel so much happier having completed it. So keep going and never give up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're the best words in the world. At the end, the end, how did it get you? And that's when you realize that the real work begins when you start to edit Absolutely, absolutely. So my very final question where can my listeners find out more about you and your books?
Speaker 2:So I'm hoping to have my website up and running soon. That's martymnmiacom, so hopefully, soon as that's up, I shall put a wee social media post and people will be able to visit my website. You can also visit my Facebook page, twitter and Instagram. However, for the books, if you're looking for ebooks of Island of Ruin, you can find it in Kindle, nook, apple, kobo, skride and Smashworks, and for the printed book, you can find that in Amazon.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Well, thank you very much, and I hope you have enjoyed the rest of your day.
Speaker 2:I will do and thank you. It's been a pleasure being here again, Wendy. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's been my absolute pleasure to have you on here and so many good tips and good advice, and it's been lovely hearing about the process of your writing. So bye.
Speaker 2:And can I just put? Sorry, can I just put one wee plug out? I am in the middle of reading your book, Wendy, and I'm really enjoying it your very first book in your Di Shona Mackenzie series and I can highly recommend it to anyone listening. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Right, have a great day. Bye, thank you, bye. That brings us to the end of another show. It was really good to have you on the show with me today. I'm Wendy H Jones and you can find me at wendahjjonescom. You can also find me on Patreon, where you can support me for as little as $3 a month, which is less than the price of a tea or coffee. Go to wwwpatreoncom, forward, slash wendahjjones. I'm also Wendy H Jones on Facebook, twitter, instagram and Pinterest. Thank you for joining me today and I hope you found it both useful and interesting. Join me next week when I will have another cracking guest for you. Until then, have a good week and keep writing, keep reading and keep learning.