The Writing and Marketing Show

Writing Satirical Novels

October 20, 2021 Wendy H. Jones/Charles Harris Episode 92
The Writing and Marketing Show
Writing Satirical Novels
Show Notes Transcript

What is satire and why should we be reading and writing about it? can we incorporate it into our writing and is it important that we do so? These questions and more are answered into today's episode where I discuss all things satirical writing with Charles Harris. 

Wendy Jones:

Hi, and welcome to the writing and Marketing Show brought to you by author Wendy H. Jones. This show does exactly what it says on the tin. It's jam packed with interviews, advice, hints, tips and news to help you with the business of writing. It's all wrapped up in one lively podcast, so it's time to get on with the show. And welcome to Episode 92 of the writing and Marketing Show with author entrepreneur, Wendy h. Jones. Today I'm going to be talking to Charles Harris, about writing satirical novels. And I'm very much looking forward to that. But before then what's been happening with me? Well, I was down in London for a couple of weeks. And I actually met up with Charles and we met in the cafe at foyles bookshop, which is a fabulous place for writers to meet. And it was so good to see him because we hadn't seen each other for nearly three years because of COVID. We were meant to be catching up at London Book Fair. But London Book Fair was cancelled. So we weren't at it. And we couldn't catch up. So it was so lovely to see him. And I also met up with some friends from sisters in crime. So that was good as well. Getting to meet people for the first time and I had so much fun in London, I got so much research done, I just cannot tell you how much I got done. And I love historical research, I've discovered that. And so what's been happening in the world Well, COVID is still around this week, we think that maybe it's over. But it's not, I'm still wearing a mask. And I'm waiting to have my third vaccine. And but a lot of people are not wearing masks anymore, but I'm still doing what I'm meant to be doing. Here in Scotland, we are encouraged to wear them a lot of wear them in doors. And we're still meant to be one metre distance saying and I'm trying to do all of that. But hey, it gives me time to hunker down and do some writing, which is amazing. And I've also got from now, from the 22nd of October, right up until the 22nd of December, I have so many book signings and book festivals and things coming up. And I'm very much looking forward to that it's so good to get back into it and to be able to meet the public again. But again, doing so safely. And that's what's important at the moment doing things safely. And so if you'd like to know more about me and my books, as you know, I write crime fiction, I write humorous crime fiction, I also write young adult mysteries. I write children's picture books, and I write nonfiction for authors. And I have I speaking to my publisher, when I was down in London, as well, and I may just have another project in the making. So watch this space or listen to this space should I say, as always, I love doing this podcast and I love bringing it to you every week. I enjoy interviewing people, but it does take time out of my writing to record and prepare the show. And if you would like to support this time, you can do so by going to patreon.com forward slash Wendy h Jones. And you can support me for just $3 a month, which is the price of a tea or coffee and I would be very grateful. If you want to find out more about my books. As I said you can go to Wendy H jones.com, which is my website. And if you want to follow me on social media, you can do so at Wendy H jones.com. So it's all very easy. No Wendy h Jones out Wendy h Jones on social media. So wherever you go and you've typed in Wendy h Jones there I will be I'm the only one as far as I can gather, which is a good thing really because you'll be able to find me. So what have Charles well, Charles Harris is an Award nominated author and award winning filmmaker. His debut political satire. the breaking of Liam glass was an immediate bestseller, and has been shortlisted for two international literary awards. His second novel room 15 is a psychological crime thriller. In addition to which he has written two books on screenwriting and one on police slang. He lives in Hampstead with his wife and two cats. I love the sound of that one on police slang. I'm going to have to get that. So without further ado, let's get on with the show and hear from Charles. And we have Charles with us. Welcome Charles. How are you?

Charles Harris:

I'm good. Thank you, Wendy. Thank you for inviting me.

Wendy Jones:

Oh, it's so good to have you here in Scotland with me even though you're not in Scotland, virtually in Scotland. Yeah, virtually in Scotland, although you will be in Scotland soon, won't you? Why are you coming up to Scotland in November,

Charles Harris:

coming up to Brechin Book Festival. Looking forward to it enormously.

Wendy Jones:

You're going to be one of our ausspicious authors at Brechin Book Festival. So if anyone's listening to this and they're anywhere near Brechin, remember Brechin Book Festival's coming up and you'll be able to meet Charles in person, which is a delight. I can tell you.

Charles Harris:

I'm flattered. If you're sitting comfortably Charles, then we'll get started. All right. So So we all know where we're at. And we're all on the same page and all the usual things. We're going to be talking about satire today. Now, I know we probably all think different things, what satire is, so what exactly is satire? Okay, good question. In fact, it is a very interesting question, because I've done a lot of talking about satire, and I've written books, and no one's actually asked me that question. You know, and I think it's, it's well worth going into first thing is worth saying what satify isn't. Peter Cook famously said, he talks about the German satirical character cabarets, the 1930s, who famously stopped the rise of Hitler and prevented the Second World War. And so I think, I mean, I, obviously that point is a satirical point zero comment. It's a bit of barbed wit, and it kind of like all good satire, it hurts a bit, and it hits the spot. But it's not actually it's based on a misunderstanding, I think, which is that satire. We'd like to think satire changes things I don't think satire is the job of satire is to change the world. The job of politicians, even though they change it usually for the worse. But it's, it's satire is, is genre. And I'll go into lecture mode because I've literally lost on genre genres many people don't talk about very much intelligently. I think what generally happens is you get in the film world, you get this horrible phrase, it's only a genre movie. And I got a kind of similar thing I think in in books is like, genre seems to be like dismissive. It's a genre book, or genre. If you know your French or genre means it's a kind of something. So what we're saying is, it's a particular kind of in case of satire, it's a kind of comedy. There's various kinds of comedy and satire is the one where people don't really grow there's no no stories, no character arc. In most stories, you if you're watching, let's say the full film, Tootsie, the guy starts off as a bolshie, difficult actor. By the end, he's kind of grown and learned and softened a bit. Through the story of Tootsie Roll, we're grown, you know, where he has to pretend to be an actress and in a soap opera, and bumps up against his own his own issues. satire doesn't do that satire. Your the characters are stuck in their stuff is one of the most important news about satire is they don't grow. That's where where the comedy comes from. The fact is, there's they're stuck, whether whether we're talking about something like catch 22, the book will film or mash the movie, wag the dog, which my favourites, you know, these people who are stuck with their, their issues, and those issues, in cetera, are usually, you know, to do with hypocrisy, or some form some form of not living up to their standards. They're pretending to live up to maybe misuse of power, abuse of power. And it's usually attacked with savage wit. And the more Savage, the better suffer. satire is a very savage on it, which is why you need the comedies that comedy is kind of a sugar you put in the medicine. And the other thing is almost invariably topical. We can talk more about that later. But it's quite difficult to do a set up, it's not topical, because it has to hit that bull's eye for the audience or the reader.

Wendy Jones:

Yeah, no, that's a brilliant explanation actually. So really detailed, and we know exactly where we are now, which is fabulous. Because to be honest, I think we all struggle a bit as to exactly what satire is, you know, and you read satirical groups, and you think, Well, I'm not exactly sure what it is, although I know I've enjoyed it, you know. And I know satirical literature and you've touched on this a little bit has a long history. Can you give us some examples of satirical writers in their books, and which would be the one you would advise authors to read to really get the satirical voice?

Charles Harris:

Well, the first set we actually have that survived actually comes from from classical Egypt. It's called a satire of the trades. It goes back to somewhere around 2000 BC. So we're talking about 4000 years ago. And it's kind of probably more interesting for the fact that survived than during the Great humour. I think the the thought of such I would, that human would survive 4000 years is probably a bit hopeful. But it is, I mean, it is basically about it a scribe. You will mean call an author, being extremely rude about all sorts of other people who do different trades. looks down on. So not much has changed there. And, and it is amazing that survived just about in its entirety or corrupted and you can actually get it online you can even you can read it's quite short. And if I go to link, a book, a book, of course on how to find satire online for free I've got it, which I can talk about later if you're interested. I've got a link to it in there. Yeah. And then we've got people like po knacks who was Greek. The and then Aristophanes, which, I mean is still I mean, my sister, for example, which is his great, one of his great plays. Somewhere around 400 bc wonderful story, which is constantly still stage today about women who decide wives to decide their husbands have any far too much time killing each other, going into war. And they essentially withhold sex. Oh, and they say, that's it. No bed. No rumpy pumpy unless you stop fighting. And that's the plate. It's a lovely, lovely premise for a power play. And it's quite as it's constantly being revived, even to this day, which is pretty amazing. Was it written with a two and a half 1000 years ago? Yeah. The first person who actually was and there are examples of Chinese and Indian satires. They exist, you know, we tend to focus obviously, inevitably on the European tradition, but there are there are other ones that are very good. The first person who actually the word satire was used for was Juvenal, the Roman author, who wrote satires, but they weren't funny they were I mean there's they're worth reading. If we didn't get there. They're available in paperback still today. They're one again download their scathingly scandalously rude about again hypocrisy. Rich people who spend too much money on fripperies on food on on mistresses or in many cases, lovers and women when they're lovers. Again, not much has changed. It's someone's, it all sounds remarkably familiar. And, and they are worth a read. It's not long enough that people decide to bring humour into satire. I mean, the the Great example in British Literature from earlier times is Jonathan Swift. I think just about everybody knows Gulliver's Travels, though many people own shoes at a school and it realises satire it's there's the five books of colours of travels, which we generally only see the the Lilliputian that little people but there's probably lag but the big people and there's all sorts of things about intelligent horses and I mean, it's all a satire on attitudes on politics The time is very rude stuff about about the British English King at the time. I mean, a lot if you know your history, a lot of that stuff is directly related to specific historical events of the 18th century. But it's very readable even if you don't know that and very and still funny. There's some more bachelor's era one which was satire on the idea of utopia and if you are very clever anagrams, you realise that everyone is new were spelled backwards. And it's kind of this satirical place where everything is reverse people get thrown in jail for being ill. But if they commit a crime of voluntary sorry for them it's imagining a world where in the same same way that been welded in movies, in some some of his great great movies like fantasy liberty, he imagined a world where everything we take for granted is the opposite. Just to show that we do take these things for granted and maybe they aren't necessarily the right way of looking at things. Coming up more to present day well I think probably my go to book will be catch 22 I mean, my copy of catch 22 is falling apart I've read it so many times and every time I write my own set eyes I tend to go back to that to see how he did it see how it did so well assets. So if you want to read one satire probably go for catch 22. But there's some more modern ones. There's a circle by Dave Eggers, which is a satire of dystopian satire on Google and the way the these large social media stroke. Internet companies are taking over the world and trying and trying to take over our lives. And it's called hyson, the American writer whose rights amazing not always Marxist satire, but they are satirical ecological thrillers, political takes books like Star Island, which is a satire on Celebrity striptease, which is made into a movie which he disowns quite rightly I think I missed out on the way there. Of course, Evelyn was one of our great British satirist, I mean scoop is a wonderful satire of the newspaper trade. Again, my copy of that is is well well summed Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe, beautiful set our New York high, high living, and so called master the university is what they were running everything through the finance, finance industry. Booker Prize winner, the sellout. Bye, Paul Beatty, which is a interesting satire on racial attitudes in America. So, yeah, where where do you start? Where do you finish?

Wendy Jones:

Yeah, there is. Yeah, you're right. There are so many satire throughout history. And I would agree with you about catch 22 I think that's the most famous physical book that most people will have heard of, and read, you know, because it is a satirical book, and you can read it at face value. But then there is more to it than just what there is a brilliant book. So yeah. But I mean writing satirical novels, it's not something I've actually thought about. Why do you think authors should consider adding satirical works to their offering? Or should they?

Charles Harris:

I think it's the same answer with any genre first, you got to enjoy it. If you don't enjoy reading them, then you're not going to do very well at writing them. And I've got a minute experience my own background. One point I loved reading short stories for women's magazines. Great fun, and I wrote a lot and I sold quite a few and in fact, I probably made more money from some of those poor words that I have anything else I've written. Another lovely time under under assumed name, I use a different name Hilary rain. And then I went off and did some other stuff. I was doing little screenwriting and directing and and I thought I'd come back and do some and I tried writing a few and I couldn't sell a single one. You know, I mean, I could have been I couldn't have got arrested wavy one is it just it was just nothing was nothing was going and I realised, it's because I'd stopped enjoying reading. I was doing it as a job rather than just for the fun of it. So you've got to enjoy it. And you've got to have something to to say I hate that thing to say, I think you can kind of you can sometimes you find what you're going to say as you ride I think it's a bit it's a bit of a lot of hype about, you know, you got to someone's got to have their their message their thing they have to say, but you certainly have to have some anger or something you feel an injustice or something you feel is going wrong, something you want to kind of pinned with your vitriol.

Wendy Jones:

No, that's a good point. Actually, you do need to, you need a point and you need to enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, then you're not going to do well at it. So I would agree. And so I'm displaying my ignorance a bit here. But what actually makes a book satirical?

Charles Harris:

Um, I think comes back to kind of what I was saying at the beginning. I mean, it's got it's got a certain savage humour, you can do is possible to set out without humour. Like I said, some of the first ones didn't have humour. But it's a much tougher sell because it's so vitriolic. You'd have to do something like American Psycho, I suppose you could say satire without humour. I mean, it's a because you've essentially got to go so much. The other extreme that you get the fun is in the sheer nastiness of it. And you certainly see that juvenile, but most of it has to have it has to have humour. And that is a film. I think that it's under paying for the election, about an election of in a in an American school, high school. And if that's a difficult film, because it is a kind of satire on the whole American college system, but it's not. It's not funny. It's deliberately not funny. It's quite a difficult watch. I mean, he's a great filmmaker, and it's generally done quite well, I think, but it's, you know, is that I'd say you need to push the human you need to. He needs to have that topicality. Again, it's quite difficult, you know, if you do feel do a satire about, say, classical Greece, I think you'd have a problem for the audience thinking also, why am I sitting through this? What's this telling me? Even something if you're putting on licensure to example, most people do it. Dressed maybe you didn't do a modern dress, you'd be saying, Okay, so what is the relevance to today? And I think you can very clearly see what the relevance of today is, you know, we still have wars, we still have mostly men fighting them, and women trying to stop them. So, you know, I mean, so and what makes us satirical? Is that that savage humour, that pinning of the bullseye of finding something, finding a truth he really want to get across? in a, in a comic way.

Wendy Jones:

Excellent explanation. Thank you. So I'm curious. When enough does one start when writing a satirical book? What's our starting point?

Charles Harris:

Well, it leads on almost exactly what I said, which is you start with where do you feel angry? You know, where's the hypocrisy? Where's the injustice? I mean, my book, my debut novel and the break of Liam glass, and we're looking at, you know, the horrors of journalism the way the tabloid industry savages people without even thinking about it. And I thought, what makes people do this? You know, what, and I've met a lot of journalists and I did a lot of research as well. And you're thinking these people are generally intelligent, literate, well read, you know, the kinds of people who would probably go home and listen to classical music or you know, sort of pet the dog and they're not evil ogres for the most part, and there are a few guys edit the song I think is pretty good, I think when he gets there, but it's so what started me off was those two thoughts. Firstly, all these the injustice, the horror of the things we do, but also, what makes someone who seems to be perfectly okay, nice, well, actually person, do this kind of stuff. And it was interesting. I mean, there's, there's a, you can find quite a few examples of people talking, you know, either in podcasts or on writing on the Internet of how they were journalists who were just kind of sucked into this kind of morass, sometimes it was just the pressure was put on, you know, you got to set up the story. say this about this person, even though it may not be true. Tell this person's name, even though they're supposed to be anonymous. You know, I mean, constant desire, it's fear, isn't it, it's a need for readers, a fight for the fight for against the, the rival newspapers. And so I started with that. And then I started researching, and looking at, you know, looking at the sort of how it actually worked out. And most newspapers didn't want to know. But some enormously helpful, the Daily Mirror was enormously helpful. I sneaked into the Daily Star, somebody sent me in the editor wasn't personnel was there. So I sat in on setting on editorial conferences, and it was fat. It's fascinating. And some of the things people told me and I, when I do research, I always say, look, this is off the record, and I'm looking for deep, so I'm not going to use your name or specific example. But some things are willing, you know, obviously anonymized, but some of the lines of dialogue with things people have said to me exactly. Some of the things that happened, went straight into the book, and just like they were writing my book for me at times, was wonderful. So yeah, so that's, you know, sort of I started developing, you know, and seeing Okay, where's the story take me. And I had, at the same time, I had a story, a short story, it actually won the award. One of the first short stories I wrote about a kid who'd been stabbed in a kind of possible mugging and left, left in a coma. And he that's Liam glass, he became the centre of it, and everybody, the Puranas are trying to feed off him and his story.

Wendy Jones:

So yeah, the starting points, obviously, having a premise that you want to unpick and say this is not what should be happening is quite horrific, really, in a lot of ways, isn't it? It's quite dark, but then you bring your humour into it, where you can

Charles Harris:

start developing characters because I needed a character and the character was with Jason Crowthorne Who's this journalist who is kind of on the slide. He's he was onced young journalist of the year, still waiting to try and claim his Pulitzer Prize, but is about to get the push from his local paper and to leave, he stumbles across A story of a decade and this is the one that he says he feels is going to make his name. It's about the secret this boy in the coma has the glass that nobody else knows and he doesn't yet know but he knows if he feels pretty sure he can find what secret is. He knows it's a big one. But to get into the, into the newspaper, the bit the big tabloid, that he's going to sell to, yes, tell it lie. And that lie leads to another lie. And then before he knows that he's being sucked into this maelstrom of

Wendy Jones:

sound sounds good to me. I have to read that find out what a good satirical book is like.

Charles Harris:

It was fun to write I mean one of the great things about writing satire is it is you can enjoy because you put all you can put all your stuff in it you can all the things you hate and laugh at the same time you can make it you know, you can enjoy the humour you can enjoy being with these characters. It's It's It's probably one of those most enjoyable books I've ever written.

Wendy Jones:

Excellent. Again, I want to unpick it just a bit further. Can authors who write in other genres add satirical elements to their books and if so how would they go about it?

Charles Harris:

I would say can they not? My view of genre is it's very rare you get worse book in one genre just flat movies if it's in one genre it tends to have a deliberately done so since I was slightly retro feel nothing wrong with that but it's you know that's you what you how you would do something like you know, the the Al Capone movie or untouchable you know, it's a gangster with a capital G. But most books, books and films have at least two genres maybe more working away in them. So for example, Liam blast is essentially it's kind of a political crime story. It's a thriller, which is the style of it, and it's a satire so he's got you know, so is the crime of the of the knife crime and the investigation there's a political stuff that's going on as the the police and the politicians and the rival journalists all kind of pile in there trying to make make the most of it before we don't and stop Jason doing his what he's trying to do is Jason trying to, to sell, sell the story, but also use the money to help men get the medical treatment that the kid needs. So he's got a, you know, a bit of a good heart in the middle of all that. So it's quite a lot of genre elements there. So I'd say, do whatever genres you enjoy, and but feel free to add in some satirical content, there's no reason why you can't, you know, be satirical about the state of the police. So in my book, room 15, which is actually a psychological thriller, about a detective with amnesia, who thinks he might have witnessed a murder, but needs you know, but it's almost trying to kill him for years, his memory back. So that's a psychological thriller. But there I'm, you know, I felt quite free to make some satirical points about the state of the police at the moment and the way that once you get to a certain level in the police, it's basically politics. It's about, you know, getting getting the numbers, it's about pleasing the guy above you, it's about pleasing the mayor or the, you know, the council or whoever's paying your bills. Prime Minister. Prime Minister. Exactly,

Wendy Jones:

yeah. So what would you say? What makes a really good satorical book or author

Charles Harris:

Don't hold back. You know, someone who does goes that extra distance. You got to, you got to really push.. We've got to be ruthlessly funny. You can be ruthlessly accurate. And you got to edit ruthlessly. Because, you know, I mean, there's, with any comedy, there's always going to be stuff that didn't work you had to try out, we wouldn't know until you tried it. When I did, I did my course a satirical sort of coming of age movie called paradise Grove. We got to the cutting room, and I think we cut, we cut out about 40 scenes that we'd shot and we cut in half, but another 40 I felt really bad about it until I was watching a DVD. Remember DVDs. He used to have these sort of Yeah, they had these wonderful commentary tracks. And they're like a film school themselves. And they had this great director who's not nearly as one as he ought to be called Franco's who's directed so many of the great Hollywood comedies, and I was watching bowfinger, which is a lovely satire about the movie industry, where Steve Martin is desperate to make his first movie before he's 50 because apparently, and it's true as he's forming, she's a very ageist industry. I had the same rush to get my first film done for 50. So I sympathise with that. I was watching the comedy track is a very, very funny film actually, if you get a chance to see it. And Franco said They cut up 40 scenes and they cut 14 out of it. You know, a lot better about that because he said, You just don't know until you've actually shot it and looked at it on the screen or in the case of a book read it and probably right past an editor. You're never quite sure which bits work and which bits don't you got to try them out. So yeah, those are the three things you got. You got to be ruthless to run survey. They'll be ruthlessly funny ruthlessly accurate because, you know, suppose I made a joke about Boris Johnson and I made a satirical joke about him being too religious. There was a laugh because it doesn't make sense. He's not you have to find out something he is like a perennial liar. Sorry to offend any Boris Johnson listeners. No, I'm very happy to offend anybody. Johnson's aborting listeners

Wendy Jones:

moving swiftly onwards before we alienate half of Britian. No, but I know what you mean, you have to actually it has to be realistic, or people are not going to believe it. So I was going to ask you what your top three tips would be for anyone writing SATA. But I think you've told us that really in the three things. Yeah.

Charles Harris:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, that's, that's it, is it? Yeah, I mean, and I mean, that sort of the fourth is, you still got to do all the stuff that a book has to do, you gotta have a strong plot, you've got to have characters that people care about. And it's weird, because the characters going to be fairly negative characters. And the most part, so finding, the thing for people to care about is probably the biggest challenge in satire, finding that character, with Jason, I, you know, I didn't want to, I could have done him as just a totally, utterly evil person, but I didn't want to do that I wanted you to feel kind of, if you're in that situation, you probably would done the same thing. And the other characters around him or even, you know, are more evil. So whatever he does, and he does some pretty acts, he got to keep pushing, pushing him to do more and more and more. And that's part of the fun of it, saying, okay, you know, rather than just borrow these keys, maybe can steal these keys. And you know, rather than just, you know, sort of find a way to talk himself into the flat where the kid who's in a coma used to live, maybe can break in, you can always keep the further you can always push further and see what's going to be more dramatic and funnier. But you need to have the character that people are going to get invested in.

Wendy Jones:

Yeah, that's really good advice, actually. Now, I know you've told us quite a bit about leaving Liam glass, and I think that's a brilliant, it sounds like a brilliant book. Can you tell us about your other books?

Charles Harris:

Or the other novel? I've got out at the moment score room 15. That's the one about the cop with amnesia. Oh, yeah. And, yeah, I'm really pleased with that, that took a long time to arrive at my books to do take a long time to write. This one, I was horrified to find I had notes on it's going back to the 1980s. But amnesia is is a tricky thing. Because of course, character that we just said is so important. And of course, the moment someone's got amnesia, you've taken away a great chunk of their character, because memories are so important. I think they're the biggest struggle all the way through writing that book, which I feel like solved. I mean, they've got some very good reviews is to find that character, despite that, and he's got, he's got a kind of amnesia where he's just basically lost the last 18 months of his life. And so to begin with, he's sort of, he's walking along in the road, and it's snowing and he's wondering why because last moment, he thought he thought it was sunshine, it was only a party in his garden. But gradually, he realises that something pretty awful is at work, realise, first off, he looks down, he's got blood on his hands. And he's carrying a bag with some very strange things, and he's no idea where he is in his darkened Street. And he's got things in his pocket. He doesn't recognise and is wearing clothes, he doesn't recognise. And from there, he starts digging, and digging and digging until he realises there's something really awful being going on. But where is he in this awfulness?

Wendy Jones:

Again, it sounds like a fabulous book. I love the sound of both of them. I'm going to rush out and buy them. I think I'm going to read them next. sort of person, you download a book or you buy in paperback, you think I'll get that done tomorrow? And tomorrow never happens.

Charles Harris:

Yes, yes. Well, if you had, you've got the video nobody else got really you can see a few of my to read books behind me and most of them are on the floor where you can't see them.

Wendy Jones:

Yes, precisely minor in my office, and I'm in this sitting room where it's a little marginally warmer at the moment. So my final question for you, Charles is where can my listeners find out more about you and your books?

Charles Harris:

Okay, well, I'll give you to places for me simply is www Charles hyphen harris.co.uk. Yeah, it's Charles's, it sounds hyphen is it sound, ha WRI ES. x, there are apparently different ways of playing Harris. If you want, I've got as I say, I've done a free book, because I thought I thought I went on the internet to think, you know, everyone says, you know, sort of intense place to find things, you'd find things for free. And I thought maybe I'd find a half dozen books of satire. And a few of them might be okay ish. And I find I found you could read freely on the internet, over 80 great spiritual books, including some of the some of the classics, you can read, catch 22, for free on the internet, you can read lysator, for free on the internet, you can read the script for Dr. Strangelove for free on the internet. There's a few in the book. So you know, you have to pay for if you want to read them, you don't have to, they're just ones at the end. But you can download my book for free. It's called laughing in the dark. And you can download it at www dot satire book.com. And that will take you to a page where you can find out about the book. So satire book.com. And that's a totally free downloads. All you do is give me my email address to my mailing list, we'll get more information about that Oh, and other books. Or you can just unsubscribe if you want to

Wendy Jones:

That's well worth getting. And the information will be good as well. So hey, I'm going to sign up. I haven't done it yet. I know I said I would do I'm going to sign up to your mailing list because I'm sure whatever you send out is going to be excellent.

Charles Harris:

Thank you very much. I do my best. I have a loyal loyal crowd who do say nice things about my blogs.

Wendy Jones:

Well thank you very much for joining me here in Scotland today. Charles, it's been lovely talking to you. Yes, I

Charles Harris:

I'll wait for the oatcakes to be sent through.

Wendy Jones:

Oh absolutely. Okay, we'll get you a Dundee Cake and oatcakes. When you come up here.

Charles Harris:

I look forward to it. I have fond memories of whole days when my best friend used to come from tEdinburgh. An we used to go up and I remembe the bread was fabulous. Yea .

Wendy Jones:

The bread isn' abul

Charles Harris:

Fried egg w th fruitcake, I remember that wa a very Edinburgh scene. Oh, y

Wendy Jones:

absolutely. Right, Charles. Well, thank you very much. I'll let you to your day. And I will see you in Brechin. Look forward to it.

Charles Harris:

Thank you, Wendy. You're welcome. Bye.

Wendy Jones:

That brings us to the end of another show. It was really good to have you on the show with me today. I'm Wendy h Jones. And you can find me at Wendy H jones.com. You can also find me on Patreon where you can support me for as little as $3 a month which is less than the price of a tea or coffee. You go to patreon.com forward slash when the H Jones. I'm also went to h Jones on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Pinterest. Thank you for joining me today and I hope you've found it both useful and interesting. Join me next week when I will have another cracking guest for you. Until then, have a good week and keep writing. Keep reading and keep learning