Today I chat to Scottish author, Val Penny, about the why and how of changing publishers.
valpenny.com
Today I chat to Scottish author, Val Penny, about the why and how of changing publishers.
valpenny.com
Hi, and welcome to the writing and marketing show brought to you by author Wendy H. Jones. This show does exactly what it says on the tin. it's jam packed with interviews, advice, hints, tips and news to help you with the business of writing. It's all wrapped up in one lively podcast. So it's time to get on with the show. And welcome to episode 129 of the writing and Marketing Show with author, entrepreneur Wendy H. Jones. As always, it's a pleasure to have you join us even though the week seem to be flying past amazing speed. So today, we're going to be talking about changing publishers. Now that's something that seems to happen a lot. But we never ever speak about it or the processes. So I thought I would discuss it today. Because if you're thinking of looking for a new publisher, this will help you. And I'm going to be talking to Val Penny, who writes the Edinburgh crime series, but she is also recently changed publishers. So before that what's been happening in my life? Well, life has always is crazy busy. I've been at book signings three days in a row, and that was manic I did extremely well. Listen, I thought people wouldn't be buying books, because of the issues with the economy. But it would appear that people are still buying and enjoying books, and they're buying them for themselves or buying them for gifts. I had someone by my entire series, signed copies of it. So you know, things are still happening. So it's worth getting out there. And going to book signings, I've also had a couple of days in Edinburgh, I spoke out in a word at the bar. And that was lovely. I really enjoyed that. It was lovely to see the fantastic Dr. Jackie noire, Jackie Collins, also known as Dr. Noir, and she was in full fettle as always, and it was lovely to see some other fabulous authors there. Like Olga virus, if I've got her name, right, it'll be a miracle. And Lesley Kelly, and to see them was phenomenal, because I haven't seen them all for a couple of years. So it was really nice to see them again, getting out and about it's good. While I was in Edinburgh, I took the opportunity to go to the rare manuscripts Reading Room at the National Library of Scotland. And that was phenomenal. I have to say it was amazing. getting your hands on newspapers that were from the day when my character was actually out there. And as I was there in Edinburgh, and as my character was a real person, it blew me away the fact that he may have held that very copy of that paper and I was holding it nearly 200 years later. Now I'm not saying you did hold it. But hey, I'm an author. And I write fiction. So we're allowed flights of fancy. But even so the first ever episode of that audition should I say, of that paper came out in December 1834 When my character was in Edinburgh, and to think that he may have read the first one and no, I was reading the first one. Phenomenal. But I also learned a lot from it wasn't just for that. I learned a lot from the newspapers and magazines I looked at, because I was able to see things about the political and social situation at the time in what was then called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland because Northern Ireland had joined in 18, or one. So I think it was called Ireland, not Northern Ireland. Sorry, I'm telling lies that Ireland joined in 1801. So it was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. And it was phenomenal to be able to, to do that. And I enjoyed the experience very much looking at these rare manuscripts. So I can highly recommend that you do that. Because it's well worth it. What have I got coming up this week? Well, I've got a strategy meeting with my agent, which is great, because she's keeping me on my toes. We're looking at where she's pitching, et cetera, and what my responsibilities are, and that is really good. Having an agent really keeps you on the straight and narrow. I have to say, I've not got anything on this week, really. But the following weekend, I have a booksigning for two days, and then I will be putting myself into two weeks isolation of for my own sake, because I am actually trying to stay away from COVID. The COVID cases are rising. So I'm trying to stay away from it. I'm trying not to get it because I will be flying to the United States on the first of August. So I'd really got to take care that I don't get COVID Before that, so I'm going to be in two weeks isolation, I'm being very careful wearing masks and things at the moment, because I really don't want to get it before I fly out. I'm trying to keep myself COVID free. So that's what's happening with me. And I'm enjoying life I'm enjoy, I've been doing a lot of writing. And that's always a good thing. And I love writing. So it's great to be able to bring my characters to life. Before I introduce you to Val, I would like to say it's an absolute pleasure to bring you this every week, I do so willingly. And I enjoy doing it. However, it does take time out of my writing, which you can support this time if by going to patreon.com forward slash Wendy H. Jones, and supporting me for just $3 a month. And it will tell me that you're very grateful that it's happening, it will tell me that you like the show, and you I will be very grateful that you've done it. I know times are hard. So if you can't afford to support me on a regular basis, then you can go to my website, Wendy jones.com and support me for just a one off couple of dollars to pay for a coffee. And you can do it that way. So either way I would be very very grateful for your support. So what a vowel. Well vowel is an American author living in southwest Scotland with her husband and their cat. And hunters rules is the sixth book and balconies, Edinburgh crime mystery series of novels published by Dark stroke as the as the is the first cut of the first book in the new series of gin Renwick thrillers. She has recently contributed to the short story cats and dogs to a charity anthology dark Scotland. Her short story The corpse in the catacombs will be published in the charity anthology, dark power is shortly. And vo it has recently changed publishers and we're going to talk about her experience of changing publishers today. So that that may help you if you're thinking of changing publishers. So without further ado, let's get on with the show and hear from vowel. Do we got vowel with us welcome vowel.
Val Penny:Well, thank you so much for inviting me along today. Wendy. It's wet and windy here. So it's rather nice to have an excuse to sit inside and have a chat with you.
Wendy Jones:Absolutely. It's it's not wet and windy here. It's windy here, but it's not wet. But it's not exactly hot either. That's for sure. Now, look, I've introduced you said you were from America. And that is not an American accent?
Val Penny:No, I've lived in Scotland a very long time. And indeed, it's Edinburgh and Scotland that my two series are. Books are setting. So yes, I've lived here a long time. Although I have to say my children laugh at me because they tell me as I fly west, my accent changes.
Wendy Jones:Maybe that'll happen to me when I go to America. Maybe I'll be speaking with an American accent by the time I get there.
Val Penny:Maybe you will.
Wendy Jones:So anyway, we're going to talk today about changing publisher because I recently you I know you recently have changed publishers. So I know that authors often change publishers. But I'm curious what might be the reasons that they do this?
Val Penny:Well, you know, each publisher offers something different to their authors. But what the authors want, and what they need changes over time. And so it's not unusual for authors to move from one publisher to another. It might be that the author has chosen to write a book in a different genre. And that genre is not supported by their original publisher, or simply that their support or distribution requirements change over time. There's all sorts of reasons to move.
Wendy Jones:Oh, no, no, no, somebody that's recently moved publishers because they've publishers only did Hardbox so there was never any paper but so did hardbacks and ebooks but there was never any paperbacks available. Gosh, they've moved publisher, you know. So you're right. There are different reasons. And publishers do different things and it might not suit the needs of everybody. So do you mind telling us what led to you wanting to change publishers?
Val Penny:No, absolutely. When I moved to publishers, I had been with crooked cat and their prime cream and print a dark stroke for probably about seven years. On the directors their work very hard to develop a feeling of immunity amongst their authors, and they run in house courses about for example, a I'm editing algorithms and Amazon, how to use social media, all this sort of thing. And for a new author, this tuition and information is absolute gold dust. And as a new author, I was very lucky to have been nurtured in that environment. However, over that period of time, I had certain fiction titles under my belt, and my professional needs began to change in a way that wasn't going to be supported by the offering that dark stroke and crooked cat made. And that was when I decided to make a move.
Wendy Jones:Well, that sounds like a good reason, actually. Because things do change. I mean, I've been doing this eight years, you've been doing it seven years. So we've got similar similar paths, really. And you're what you do and how you go about it changes over that time. And so once you've made the decision to move publishers, how did you start the process? Where did you begin?
Val Penny:I began the process of moving publishers at the beginning of this year. And oh, my goodness, that's a stressful thing to do. It's, it's a bit like, when you move hopes, you know, you know, you have to do it. And the ultimate benefits are going to open with it, the temporary anxiety. But that still doesn't take the anxiety away. And dark stroke had begun to accept mainly first time authors. And they needed a great deal of support from the directors on the team. And they needed a different kind of support that that I required going forward. The in house courses the company offered, were all very familiar to me. And it became clear that, for me, a move to a different publisher was going to be called for.
Wendy Jones:Yeah. So how did you actually start the process of moving?
Val Penny:I firmly believe that communication is the key. I, most of my books were out of contract with with dark stroke. And so what I did was, I contacted them, spoke to them, and made sure that they understood it wasn't that I was unhappy with them. There was nothing unpleasant or untoward in the move. It was just a change of emphasis from from my point of view.
Wendy Jones:Yeah. And I mean, you've you've alluded to this, because you said the some of your books were out of contract. But one of the big issues when leaving a publisher is rights reversion. I know people have had real real problems with REITs reversion. And it can be a nightmare. In fact, I know people who've had to have this society of authors stepping on their behalf while not stepping on their behalf, because they don't do that. But they've had to step in and give them advice on what to say and what to do in order to get the rights back. So how did you go about getting your rights back from the publisher for all your books?
Val Penny:Well, they were still publishing the first five of my books that were out of contract. And they were doing that by agreement with me. And I had no problem with that. And that was fine. So there were only two books, the last of the Hunter series, and the first of the Jane Renick books that were still in formal contract stage. And what I did was, as I had been one of Dark Strokes, bestselling authors for the past five years, I thought the best thing to do was to speak to them and explain my dilemma. And they were really very civilised about it. We quickly reached an amicable agreement about reversion of rights. No, that required me to remain with them for a further quarter. And then after that, the company agreed that they would allow all of my rights to revert to me at no cost. No, that is very unusual. And I'm aware of that. A charge Sometimes a very hefty charge is required. But in this case, we had a calm discussion. We were discussed fully the need for a move, not really just from my point of view, but I was taking up energy in a relatively small company that could be diverted to probably two or three new authors in a different in a different way. And the other thing I think you have to bear in mind, Wendy, publishing and writing is a very small industry. And you have to bear in mind that bad news travels fast. US does word that you're difficult to deal with. And so no, no author, orangeade Publishing House wants to get that kind of reputation. My grandmother always used to say purchasei costs nothing. And that's as true now as it was then.
Wendy Jones:Yeah, I think it You're right is to say, and being pleasant and working with them can help. And you don't want to get a name for being, you know, someone that's difficult to work with. But you also want to be able to get your rights back, you know, it seems to me that your publisher was very amicable and amenable both at all, which is great, because you're right, some people charge 1000s of pounds for people to get the rights back. And that can be really tricky. And that's where looking at your contract, when you first get it comes in. So useful, because you need to make sure that there's a rights reversion clause in it, because a lot of a lot of not all but a lot of contracts are coming through now with really bad terms in terms of getting your rights back. So it needs to be set out clearly at the beginning. And being nice and working together helps as well.
Val Penny:Yes, you're right. We're all part of the same business.
Wendy Jones:Yeah, yeah. And we're all trying to do our best for readers. That's what it's all about, you know. It's really and truly. So once you've done that, I mean, obviously, you don't need to find another publisher. How did you go about finding a new publisher?
Val Penny:Oh, my goodness, this is truly the most stressful part of the process. I was fortunate that when it became known that I was looking for a move, and that I had the rights to my whole back catalogue, organised. And also that I had various ideas for new books. Going forward, several publishers expressed an interest in signing me. Now, I also investigated the possibility of setting up my own publishing house. But there are so many aspects to that. That I'm not particularly adept at things like cover design, editing, I truly believe you can never edit your own work. You need a skilled and honest editor. Yes. And so the publishing side of things was going to take too much of my time and my energy. So I did a bit of investigating of the four companies that were interested or had expressed interest in me. And I struck a deal with spell bone books. They are, they're a new company, they're based in London there. They haven't been going terribly long, two or three years maybe. But the directors have been in the publishing industry for decades between them. So they have a lot of in house expertise they have in house editors in house proofreaders in house covered designers. And I was aware that I just could not replicate that expertise, and the vision of Spellbind on my own, and they had a vision for my books going forward. And it's really exciting. The other thing that is interesting about them is I spoke to some of the other authors who are published by them. And what I heard was, I like what they do for me. I like the way they do it. And I like Because the ethics of the company. Now, I don't know about you, but I very rarely hear anybody say that they like the ethics of a company. And, indeed, spellbound, told me what they plan to do when they plan to do it. And they have done exactly that. And it's it's very refreshing.
Wendy Jones:I know Spellbound and they are very good, actually, I know the people that run it, and they're outstanding at what they do. So that was a good move, really, as you say, they are very ethical and very knowledgeable. And I think that they only started during COVID.
Val Penny:Yes, exactly. So yeah, yeah,
Wendy Jones:I interviewed one of the directors for the podcast. But yes, very good publishing company. So well done. That was nice. Thank you. So I know you don't use an agent, I prefer to approach publishers yourself. Why that choice?
Val Penny:Well, I have briefly had agents twice in the past. And I'm sure that if an author secures the services of a good agent to actively supports them, and promotes their books, this can be advantageous. However, my first agent had the audacity to get pregnant and leave the business without a thought for her or exactly, I daresay if I'd been in her shoes, I'd have done the same thing. The next one was much more interested in promoting herself, and making sure that she was known to my contacts, rather than working on my behalf, and introducing me to her contacts. So that was a most unhappy relationship. And so I then spoke at length to a friend who worked as an agent, with one of the large literary agencies for many years before she changed careers. And her view was that I didn't need an agent. I've never had a problem getting publishers to accept my work. Even when I was unknown. As an author, I had a choice of two publishers, who were interested in working with me. So her view was that I would just be paying an agent, a percentage of my income, to no particularly good end. So for the meantime, I'll continue to work without an agent.
Wendy Jones:You know, you're right, you need the right agent, or it doesn't work. And I recently signed with an agent and I did a podcast on it. And even her view is it has to be the right person. You know, they, from the agents point of view, they read, they need the right client, the client needs the right, the author needs the right agent, and you need to be able to work well together without them getting pregnant. No, she never said that. But yeah, you do need to have a good working relationship, or it's not going to work on either side. Really. So fortunate if you find the right one, and especially if you're not going to go off on maternity leave.
Val Penny:Well, to be fair, I didn't judge the first agent or maternity nearly as much as I grudge the second agent, her attitude.
Wendy Jones:On the whole before people think we're picking on agents here on the whole agents are awesome. But sometimes you have to have the right one, you know, it's a relationship. I know people that have had three or four agents. And they say they had to move because the relationship wasn't working. And then they eventually found one that they were able to work with what they can Essen here. Really interesting discussion. Yeah.
Val Penny:It is interesting. And as you rightly see, if you have the right agent, it's a gift. If you have a wrong agent, the wrong agent is as with any wrong advice, as a liability.
Wendy Jones:So can you tell us about your books, we've been chatting about moving publishers and everything but let us know about your books.
Val Penny:I'd be happy to do that. I have two police procedural crime series. The longer of the two is the DI Hunter Wilson thrillers, and they're set in Edinburgh. The Jane renix thrillers are more generally set in Scotland. And I've done that quite deliberately. Because Jane Rennick works with MIT with the major incident team, which is based in Got CAUTI and she has to travel the country to where the major crimes are. And so I plan to visit all the lovely parts of the country that I haven't had a chance to visit over the last couple of years. In order to set Jane's stories, realistically, yeah, Spellbind books have taken all of these books, they're going to publish the first novel hunters chase on the 20th of August. And then the second book hunters Revenge will be available again from November.
Wendy Jones:Excellent. That's really good to hear. Hey, and they're very good books, guys. The ones I've read, I've thoroughly enjoyed, you know, so well worth grabbing. So all interviews come to an end. So my last question, as always, where can my reader resource where can my listeners find out more about you and your books?
Val Penny:The easiest place to find out about me and my books is on my website. And that has a most unimaginative name. It's www dot valper. need.com.
Wendy Jones:Hey, at least you know where you stand. seriously. At least you know where you're at. If it's got an imaginative name, nobody can find you. Exactly. An absolute pleasure to have you join us today. Thank you very much file and for all your insight. It's been really interesting.
Val Penny:Well, thank you very much for having me alone. I really enjoyed chatting with you, as always, Wendy, and I wish you all the best going forward too.
Wendy Jones:thank you. Yes, I like chatting to my favourite American Scott. Right. How about you enjoy the rest of your day?
Val Penny:Bye bye.
Wendy Jones:That brings us to the end of another show. It was really good to have you on the show with me today. I'm Wendy H Jones. And you can find me at Wendy H jones.com. You can also find me on Patreon where you can support me for as little as $3 a month which is less than the price of a tea or coffee. You go to patreon.com forward slash Wendy H Jones. I'm also Wendy H Jones on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Pinterest. Thank you for joining me today and I hope you found it both useful and interesting. Join me next week when I will have another cracking guest for you. Until then, have a good week and keep writing. keep reading and keep learning