What if you could captivate young minds and inspire a love for reading? Join me and children's picture book author, Pauline Tate, as we navigate this enchanting world. We dive into the art of crafting engaging characters and compelling narratives, exploring the vital role of illustrations and the delicate balance between simplicity and captivating storytelling.
Our lively conversation also delves into the business side of things, shedding light on the intricacies of the children's book publishing industry. We serve up invaluable advice on finding the right publishers, researching age brackets, and the importance of networking. Whether you're an aspiring author or a seasoned professional, Pauline's insights are sure to enrich your understanding and approach to children's literature.
We also share our experiences from recent book signings and my upcoming US book tour, emphasizing the importance of reader engagement. Plus, we look at how to foster a love for reading, inspiring young minds to become lifelong learners. So, ready to step into the whimsical world of children's literature? Come along as we journey through this exciting landscape with Pauline Tate!
What if you could captivate young minds and inspire a love for reading? Join me and children's picture book author, Pauline Tate, as we navigate this enchanting world. We dive into the art of crafting engaging characters and compelling narratives, exploring the vital role of illustrations and the delicate balance between simplicity and captivating storytelling.
Our lively conversation also delves into the business side of things, shedding light on the intricacies of the children's book publishing industry. We serve up invaluable advice on finding the right publishers, researching age brackets, and the importance of networking. Whether you're an aspiring author or a seasoned professional, Pauline's insights are sure to enrich your understanding and approach to children's literature.
We also share our experiences from recent book signings and my upcoming US book tour, emphasizing the importance of reader engagement. Plus, we look at how to foster a love for reading, inspiring young minds to become lifelong learners. So, ready to step into the whimsical world of children's literature? Come along as we journey through this exciting landscape with Pauline Tate!
Hi and welcome to the Writing and Marketing show brought to you by author Wendy H Jones. This show does exactly what it says on the tin. It's jam-packed with interviews, advice, hints, tips and news to help you with the business of writing. It's all wrapped up in one lively podcast. So it's time to get on with the show. And welcome to episode 182 of the Writing and Marketing show with author entrepreneur Wendy H Jones, and it's a pleasure to have you here with me yet again. Today we're going to be talking about writing children's picture books with author Pauline Tate, and I'm excited to have Pauline because her children's picture books are outstanding. I really like them and I know it's going to be a fabulous interview. So if you're in any way interested in writing children's picture books, this is the episode for you.
Speaker 1:What's been happening in my life? Well, I've been doing a lot of book signings at Highland Games. Now, I know that's not the usual place you'd think of doing a book signing, but trust me, it is well worth going. People love to buy books at Highland Games. There's craft stalls and things there. When they see books, they buy them, because a lot of people from abroad go to the Highland Games. There are a lot of tourists and they like to take Scottish books home with them and my books sold extremely well at all of them. But Bertie the Buffalo is always a favourite as well, so he's a children's picture book. So why not think about those sorts of book signings and you can meet new people, sell books and have a fabulous time, because you get to see the Highland shows and it's brilliant. There's nothing like the pipes and drums the mass pipes and drums to get my creative heart stirring and you know it makes me want to write. So it's been really exciting time recently.
Speaker 1:I'm recording this as I record this two weeks. Today I will be in Edinburgh and I'm meeting up with a load of readers and one writer, two writers, a bunch of writers and two readers I've been over my tongue today, I'm sorry. Two readers and a bunch of writers and some bloggers and we are going to have dinner and then the next day I will be flying out to the States on my book tour of the States and it's very exciting and I'm very much looking forward to that. More and more events are coming in each day and again it's an opportunity to meet new readers, to sign books and to help people to go home with books that they like. I'm currently recording seven episodes of the show before I go to the States so that I've got some there and I don't need to worry too much for the first few weeks that I'm out there. And I think that's important really, that I can relax for five minutes and just take stock and concentrate on my events. But of course, I will be doing some other signings while I'm signings, interviews while I'm out there.
Speaker 1:I told you I was tripping over my tongue today. So before we get on with the show, I would like to say it's an absolute pleasure to bring you the show every week. I do so willingly and I enjoy doing it. However, it does take time out of my writing. If you would like to support that time, you can do so by going to patreoncom forward slash wendahagejones and supporting me for just $3 a month, which is the price of a tea or coffee per month, and I would be very grateful and it would mean that you enjoy the show and would like it to continue, because I really would like it to continue and I love doing it. As I say, I've been doing it for three and a half years and it's great fun. So what of Pauline? As I say, we're going to be talking to her today about writing children's picture books, and Pauline is a prolific picture book writer.
Speaker 1:Pauline's necessity to write has emerged alongside a profound passion to engage and inspire our younger generation to become great readers. She feels strongly that children are our future and reading is the fundamental basis of their learning. Our years of experience in working with and assessing children from primaries 1 to 7 who needed extracurricular support, then creating and delivering individual learning plans to meet their specific needs, has only fueled her passion. Given Pauline didn't enjoy school herself, she wonders if her empathy towards children is due to the fact she understands. She found the subject matter dull, but did love to read. She also loved being read to on the odd occasion that a teacher would read a chapter book, and can still remember looking forward to the last half hour of an afternoon when the next chapter would be read, and Pauline often bore this in mind when creating learning plans. Pauline also writes contemporary fiction, specifically romantic suspense, and is now enjoying writing successfully in both genres.
Speaker 1:Living in Perthshire, scotland, and with grown up children who have now flown the nest, pauline has had three distinct careers. After 22 years working as a pharmaceutical technician, pauline retrained to work in primary literary support, a job she loved. But as a writing took hold, pauline decided to commit full time and hasn't looked back since. So, without further ado, let's get on with the show and meet Pauline, and we have Pauline with us. Welcome, pauline. How are you today? I'm good. Thank you, andy. How are you? I am very well. I'm all the better for chatting to you, that's for sure. It's always lovely to talk to you. Oh, thank you. Good to talk to you too. And where are you in the world?
Speaker 2:I'm in Perthshire in Scotland and lovely part of the world, very inspiring, gets our creative juices going. Lots of green spaces.
Speaker 1:Lovely a Perthshire. That's near me, isn't it? So we're almost neighbours. We are not too far away. If you for a song with that one, I think what we want to sing. So, moving away from my prowess to be able to sing, which is not any prowess whatsoever let's get on with the show and we can ask you some questions, which is what you're here for. So I'm really curious, pauline, and I mean I love writing children's books, but I'm curious as to what inspired you to write children's books and why you find it such an awarding genre.
Speaker 2:Well, there's sort of two answers there, because I had initially started scribbling down the manuscript to my first children's book back in my early 20s, so well over 20 years ago, maybe near to 30. But it wasn't until I was working in a school. Later in life I retrained and I worked in primary literary support where I worked with children who needed extra curricular help assessing these children, creating individual learning plans for these children, implementing them and seeing them flourish, helping them.
Speaker 2:And it was while working with these children that I realised actually I could be helping children through my writing. So Paulish the dust off that manuscript from all those decades ago and sent that one out, and my books are written in a way that will hopefully retain the attention of the reluctant readers. I really want to grasp the reluctant readers, the readers who struggle. So that is my focus with my children's books is to be all around it and to be able to hold the attention of all children, whether they're being read to or whether they are reading the book themselves, whether they are reading the book as an older child who's just needing that wee bit extra help just to be able to grab their attention.
Speaker 1:Excellent. That's a really good reason for doing it. I love it. So again, how do you approach the process of creating a compelling and engaging story for young children, because you say you want it to be engaging and compelling?
Speaker 2:I think personally that you know, we want to get the attention of very young children. We want to get the attention of children who may not have long attention spans. I think it's all in our characters. I think we have to think of our characters as a whole. Young children will form a bond or form empathy, or form a like or a dislike for a character. What story we weave those characters into in some cases is almost irrelevant is the character that our children will attach themselves to. So we have to think of our characters as a whole and it's not just thinking about what our characters look like on the outside, you know. Are they? Are they spongebombed? Square pants? They soft and squishy? Are they a metal robot? Are they hard and loud and clunky? It's how our characters feel on the inside.
Speaker 2:I think that is essential, that we think of our characters on the inside too, what emotions our characters are going through. Are they happy, are they sad, are they angry, are they? Are they cheerful, are they mischievous? And I think it's getting that across through our writing and our illustrations. It's really crucial because I think that is what our children will engage with first, and especially children who cannot read. They are reading a picture book visually. They are looking at the illustrations. They want to be able to grasp up all from the illustrations. So getting our characters, emotions in there, I think is crucial to keeping our children's attention.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So I mean, yeah, characterisation, I think, is key and I would agree, you know, because if the child likes a character, then you're fine, they'll take to it. You know, for example, my one of my friends, when her son was very little I mean he's in his 20s now, but when he was very little he liked Thomas the Tank Engine, but he would not let you say the word garden. He took against whatever Gordon did in the book. He took against him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:This was really hard reading these books. You can't see Gordon. You have to change the name Gordon. But yeah, I think it was Gordon. You know, time ago.
Speaker 2:And that just proves it is the characters. The bond that they form with these characters is one with the other. It will be different with each child, but these bonds are crucial.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah. And talking of that, could you share some tips for developing relatable and memorable characters in a children's picture book?
Speaker 2:Yes, we want a simple arc for a start. We don't want to over-complicate things for our children. So we want whatever crux of the story we have. We want all happiness and light at the beginning. We want to get into an early third of the book and we want to throw in our conflict, our drama or whatever it is that's happening and we want to simply all come together and all be wonderful at the end.
Speaker 2:So, using our characters' emotions, weaving them through this simple arc, whether it's a single character or whether we've got my books, for instance, I've got four characters in there. There's the protagonist and her three best friends, but they've all got to go through the story in the one flow of the arc. They've all got to be rising in the arc and coming down again. I think that's crucial for children, to keep it simple, to keep the attention of our reluctant readers. Characters, characters have to speak to children. They have to engage. They don't have to be relevant in our time. My books are about fairies. They're quite timeless, but there has to be something about these characters that will hold the child's attention. So give that character a quirk, give that character a reason, give that character a purpose and see that purpose right through to a conclusion at the end, so that the child can see this wonderful, happy start, whatever the drama or the conflict or the situation they come across in the middle and the resolution of all coming together at the end.
Speaker 1:Excellent, these are really good tips. So again I'd like to you know. I'm sure there are some common challenges that authors face, so I'm wondering what they are when writing for a young audience, and how do you overcome them.
Speaker 2:I think making a not making a character's relatable is definitely the one as we've just discussed. Another challenge can be if an author doesn't quite know how to communicate with children. It's a very different vocabulary and I don't think it's something that's talked about often enough amongst you know, new authors. I think it's something they need to really be aware of Because they're mature women. I think in the vocabulary of a mature woman, that won't cut it in a children's picture book. You've got to bring your language right down. That's not to say that we want to oversimplify it. We just have to make it relatable and understandable to children and to do this we can use our simple language, but I would say we need to be using our words, our descriptive words. When I go into schools and author visits, I'll talk about using our words and rather than saying something was oh, it was very big we would say it was ginormous. Or instead of it was, it was, it was smelly, we would say, oh, it was really stinking. It was stinking. We would use words that would really emphasise and these words that, as we call our wow words or descriptive words, are the words that will be emphasised when we're reading our story out loud or the children are reading the book, we sort of naturally lament as we read and having our wow words helps us to add drama to our stories in the relevant places without over-complicating our text. So using our vocabulary is too shell and it's a thing that can scare some authors and I'll say don't, don't worry about. What to do is go into the likes of water, since our barns are noble. These shops have to sell, have to stop what will sell. So they are stocking the classics, they are stocking the hot new releases and they are stocking the authors who continually sell. So look on their shells, look in the age bracket that you are writing to and look at what books are selling in that bracket and look at the language that's been used, if it's something you're not naturally sure about.
Speaker 2:The other thing I would say is really crucial is know your audience, know the age brackets within children's books. We have our picture books which go three to eight, but within there it's three to five and five to eight. Then you're on to early chapter books of five to nine, which will have the odd illustrations through there. Then you're on the nine to 12 chapter books which are introducing children, preparing them for the novels in the young adult genre. So know your genre and know what age group that you are aiming for. Know the expected word count, the industry standard word counts expected within those genres. Do your research in all of those areas first.
Speaker 2:Then, if you're picking nine to 12 chapter books, I would say write to nine to 10 or write to 11 to 12, because there's a big difference between a nine year old and a 12 year old. Here in Scotland a nine year old could still be in primary six whereas a 12 year old could be in second year to high school. So there's a big difference in the children in these age groups, their level of vocabulary and their maturity. So aim for nine to 10, aim for 11 to 12 and then let the readers find you.
Speaker 2:Each child knows their average reading age. They're told this through school. Parents' carers know this through report cards, through parents' evenings, so they know what average reading age to aim for. So if you have a nine year old who's an advanced reader, the parent might go to 11 to 12. But if you have a 12 year old who's not quite as advanced, then they might be still reading the nine to 10. But if you are true to your readership. Then the readers will stick with you, they will find you. That is, I think, a crucial thing. Know the industry standards and stick to these rules.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tell her advice. That's really good, I have to say, and you're right, getting the age group right is absolutely 100 per cent. You know it is. The thing is it's different as well as you say, because you could have. For example, there are still some seven and eight year olds that are still on picture books, but there are other six year olds that are on five, six year olds that are on a chapter book, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2:And you could have an older child who's perhaps still on picture books because English isn't their second language. There's a whole host of reasons. Being true to your readership and sticking to that age bracket, I think, helps you as an author also and that readers will stick with you. If you jump around genres too much, you can lose and gain readers with each new book and we want to be gaining and growing our readership. So I write in two genres one that is romantic suspense and one is children's books. So they're completely different. When it comes to my children's books, I stick to the one genre. Parents know that I write picture books. They know that I write picture books that are aimed at both children who need read too Sort of a nice bedtime story. But they're also written in such a way that reluctant readers or readers who have needed extra help can learn to read through using these picture books. So know your genres, stick to it, your readers will find you and your readers will stay with you.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So, moving on slightly, I want to talk about visual elements. How important is it to incorporate visual elements and illustrations into children's picture books, and how do you collaborate with illustrators to bring your stories to life?
Speaker 2:Illustrations are crucial, absolutely crucial.
Speaker 2:When a child is first looking at a picture book, they are reading that story through the illustrations first. They are as important as the author, definitely, especially when it comes to the cover. The cover is what will encourage someone to pick up your book. But when children first open a picture book, they are devouring the illustrations. They can't read the words yet. They want to know what's happening, and they want to know what's happening straight away. Authors don't always know this, but when you're planning on writing your children's picture books start on page 4. That by the time you've done your copyright and your title page, your story starts on page 4. So when they open the book, there's page 4 and 5. Get a lovely dramatic double page spread in there, one illustration right across the two pages, not one on page 4, but a different one on page 5. Or the child's opening that book in there. This is, from my experience in school, in a way of sort of keeping a child's attention. Don't have them looking at page 4 thinking, oh gosh, that's going on there, but what's happening on page 5? There's too much going on. Give them one lovely illustration right across page 4 and 5. Let them look. Have your main character right there, have something that incorporates the story right there and let them devour that page and then as you turn over you can decide whether you're having single page space or double page space, but certainly at the start Always start with a double page spread and with illustrations as well.
Speaker 2:I am quite a stickler for moving things about on pages. Don't always have them on the same page. When children are getting their reading books at school certainly here in Scotland there's an awful lot of illustrations on the top, text along the bottom. It's very mundane for the, especially the children who are not so keen on reading their reluctant readers. They want to turn the page, they want to see something different every time. So I move my text and my illustrations around on each page. I'll have the text sort of set around some illustrations. You're just adding variety, you're just adding excitement. You can also do this through your colour of your font, things like that. So illustrations are absolutely crucial. Also, the style of illustrations that you go for my trilogy the Ferry and the Kettle trilogy obviously fairies very light and wispful. I've gone for wisp illustrations that fade out onto a white background. Big, solid block. Bold colours wouldn't have worked for that story. So there are different styles of illustrations and the illustrations style that you choose should absolutely match your story. I think that's crucial as well, but also working with an illustrator. It's so important to find the right illustrator, to find an illustrator who you can sort of ying and yang back and forth with.
Speaker 2:When you initially start working with an illustrator, you provide them with what we call a brief, and that is where we lay down everything that we want to incorporate or that we have envisaged as we've written the story that we want to see on the pages. So you'll have the descriptions of your characters. You'll have any little quirks. You will have what you want on page. So, for instance, I was speaking about page four and five earlier.
Speaker 2:Page four and five I'll jot down double page spread and then I'll go on to see. When I come to page six and seven, I'll see whether it's a double page spread or two single page spreads. I'll then go on to write down what I want to see on each page, write down to the little male characters that I had in the fairy and the kettle, write down to their buttonholes and their patches on their knees and any little description about colours that you want to see what colour their hair should be, their eyes should be Any little detail about your character or about the situation that they are in. Jot everything down. An illustrator will be as happy as you are.
Speaker 2:if you have everything jotted down, they want as much to work from as possible and it also will help them give you what you want as an author. But that's not to say that. I think it's also crucial to remember that they are the artist. We are the authors, but they are the artist and if they come back and say, you know, this maybe won't work quite so well, you know, take their advice. They can enhance your illustrations through their knowledge.
Speaker 2:I had an illustration in one of my picture books and it was one of the fairies. She had woken up and it was all dark and it was how did I get this through? And when I came to write in the brief, I had no idea what to put down. You don't want a dark page for children. So I just put in the brief no idea what to do here, please can you give me some advice? And she gave me this lovely illustration of the fairies that have woken up in this badger beside her and absolutely got the message across. I wouldn't have had a clue where to start, so I had to write in the brief. I had to write in the brief. I had to write in the brief. I had to write in the brief, I wouldn't have had a clue where to start.
Speaker 2:So the collaboration between an author and an illustrator is a really important relationship and it's a relationship that should be nurtured, because you can work together for years to come. I would say be open and honest with each other. You would have a timeline. You know the publishing process, it's links in the chain and you need everything to move smoothly. So you will have a deadline for having illustrations done. You will need them by that deadline. Both you and the illustrator have to agree that. Get your contract there. You know you need your. It's a business partnership as well, so just remember to have all your ducks in a row.
Speaker 1:Yeah, excellent Good advice. I mean, it's slightly different to what happens online because I've got a publisher, so the publisher deals with the illustrator, but I do have to give a brief on what I want, but I'm very loose on it and the illustrator just captures it perfectly. But if there's something I don't like I can say look, that's not quite capturing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's that going back and forward is crucial and it's lovely. And if, like the illustrator that did the fairy in the kettle, she captured it as well, which was lovely, and if you get that kind of relationship, that's great. When you have an illustrator that you know you can hand a manuscript to and they're on the same wavelength as you, then that is. That's invaluable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. I would agree totally. So, yeah, having the right illustrator makes a break a book? I think it does. I mean, I know one author who brought out a series of extremely well-known children's picture books. I won't mention her at the moment. They mentioned what it is. The illustrator died and the picture books never moved forward because they're out. The ones that were done were out and they're exceptionally popular and do well, but the author just didn't have the heart to carry on with a different illustrator. Yeah, relationship on how they did it was so close.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I just don't want to mention it. It's not fair me giving the person story. You know what I mean. It's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So again wondering I mean in my book there are themes. Are there any specific themes or messages that resonate well with children in picture books, and how do you address them effectively?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there are, Because of the age group that we're writing for children at that age. They're desperate to attach to a character. They're desperate. They'll often root for an underdog. You know, they like to see someone rise to the challenge and they like positive outcomes.
Speaker 2:So with picture books, there should always be a moral, there should always be a message in there Friendship, kindness, being true to yourself.
Speaker 2:For the ones that I have always opted to go for through my children's books Again, that's just through my experiences working in the schools but they will, the children will pick up on that very, very quickly.
Speaker 2:Especially, you know we want our stories about friendship and kindness and helping others to be simply written, and yet we need to have the message in there about the difference between right and wrong. I think that is really quite crucial and we can weave that simply into a story because, at the end of the day, the children are empathising with our characters, they're relating to our characters and also containing a positive message is the industry looks for that. The publishing industry looks for there to be a moral or a positive message within picture books. But I find that as you plot your arc, you can naturally weave these quite easily into your story. You can have a wrongdoing in there, but you can have an unravel and be made right and you can teach the difference between right and wrong or the joy of helping others or the bonds that can be there within friendships. You can weave that quite easily into your stories.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would agree. I've already touched on vocabulary, but I'd like to just unpick it a little bit more. So what role does language in vocabulary play in writing for children, and how do you strike a balance between simplicity and engaging storytelling?
Speaker 2:That vocabulary is crucial. Striking the right balance is to gain our readers. I give talks on writing for children. This is an area that often can scare readers. Writers but, as I mentioned earlier, scour the shelves of Barnes and Noble and Waterston's Not online, not online. Go into the stores, see what they are putting their money behind, that they are willing to stoke on their shelves, and look at the vocabulary that is being used by the authors that they are seeing. But it's we need to think in age-appropriate vocabulary. We have to bring our language right down.
Speaker 2:Children are taught at an early age about descriptive words and not overusing the simple words. They're going to expect the same from us. They are taught about not having. It was very big, it was very small, it was very loud, they walked very fast. They're taught not to do all that. They expect the same from us. We have to write. This is about the scours authors. I think we have to write to the curricular standard, to the school's curricular standard. Children will be the first to pick up and point out if we've done something wrong. So if we're in there making the mistakes that they are told not to do, that will be flagged up very quickly.
Speaker 2:But, as I mentioned earlier, use our descriptive words, get our drama there with our descriptive words, but also the the Between, simplicity and engagement. Storytelling. You're going to get that anyway with your characters and if you're sticking to the language rules. But what I would say is it's crucial Our descriptive words will feed our young readers' imagination, they'll conjure up the drama and the dramatic senses and they'll encourage engagement. But at the same time, we don't want sentences that are too wordy, we don't want too floral sentences, we don't want them rambling on. So it's getting a sentence that undulates and flows nicely with our descriptive words, without putting, without making them too flowery, but still getting our drama and our conflict in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that's good, that's good and it's I mean. The other thing that I would say as well is listen to children, Because I've got a repetitive line in one of mine. I mean it's not every page, but it does repeat and it's. But Bertie kept on running really, really fast. Now, where that came from was my friend's three-year-old was obsessed with in the night garden, seriously, and I just I want to say, watch it. I use the term loosely because I wasn't paying a lot of attention, but every now and again he'd go something like he was so excited and he'd go Wendy, it's called a ninky-nunk because it goes really, really fast and I'm like okay, and he kept saying it goes really, really fast, and I thought well, that's a good phrase, I could use that.
Speaker 1:You know, you've made that work because you're using it repetitively in your book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that phrase, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So you know, every now and again it will go. But Bertie kept on running really, really fast, and the kids say it as well. So they like that repetitive phrase. You know so. But Liz, I don't got that from listening to children. I wouldn't have got it otherwise. You know it's like just borrowed from the kids. They want now. No. Anyway, moving swiftly onwards, for me stealing senses from children, can you share some techniques for maintaining the child's attention throughout a picture book? So, in other words, how do you structure the pacing and rhythm of your stories?
Speaker 2:Yes, rhythm is really important. Picture books need to be rhythmical, but that's not to say they don't have to rhyme. They can if you want them to, but they don't have to. They just have to ebb and flow. What we need to remember is that picture books will almost certainly be read out loud, so they'll be read to children. So once you have written your first draft and you're about to start the first of what will be your many edits, start reading your book out loud.
Speaker 2:I think as authors, we've always got to read a picture book manuscript out loud. We need to hear for it jars. We need to be hearing our tone, sort of ebbing and flowing and going up and down as we use our descriptive words and go back down into simpler text. It needs to have a nice rhythm to it. Children will take to that rhythm, especially younger children who are just getting into reading and you want to hold their attention. It's the reading and the tone of the reader's voice that they are listening to as much as the words. So, over and over again, you need to read it aloud. You need to hear where it jars. You need to hear where it flows gently and you can move your descriptive words around. To help that, if you want to emphasise a thunderous crash or something like that and you don't want that too close to the thunderous crash or a light bang and blah, blah, blah, you need to have them sort of spread through gently and flowing.
Speaker 2:Another way to help you with this is using connectives. Children are taught to use connectives. You. Connectives are your words such as and, but, because. However, also they can help your sentence flow. They can help the rhythm flow by joining a couple of short sentences together, but equally without using connectives out. If you want to get some short, sharp sentences, then you want to get a bit of drama in there. A shorter sentence can help build tension. It can also help move your story on a little bit, so that I would say, is there just as essential as your descriptive words to help your rhythm and your flow? Your connectives will do that.
Speaker 2:Children are taught in school. Like us, as we read, they will stop and start what they're reading with the capital letter in full stop. So in their head a young child they've reached the full stop and they're going right. That's the end of that bit. Now for the next bit. So we can use that very powerfully in our writing by what we get into one sentence, whether there's a connective in there, whether there's not, whether there's a wild word in there, whether there's not. But that's how children will read. They're ready to move on to the next part of your story with that sentence. They are trained and you know they're really hot on that at the age that we are writing for.
Speaker 1:No, that's good. That's a really good piece of advice actually. So thank you for that. Yeah, All right. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors who are interested in writing children's books, For example? Are there any specific resources or organisations you would recommend they explore?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh. Yes, I think every children's author wants to start out should get themselves a copy of the children's writers and artists yearbook. It comes out every year. It is full of invaluable information. We'll give them everything from how to pitch, how to format a manuscript, how to query an agent or a publisher, letter format templates everything is in there. There is also a list of all the publishers and all the agents within the UK and the US in there. It's a mindful of information. I'd absolutely recommend everybody grab one of those and I would say that book is invaluable as well for going through and looking at every agent.
Speaker 2:Every publisher is looking at a different genre. Some of my specialised in fiction, some of my nonfiction, some in picture books, some in young adult. So go through, find the publishers and the agents who are for your genre and then you know. You know sort of where you're pitching. But apart from that, follow the industry rules, know the age brackets, the expected age brackets and, incidentally, if anyone is looking at Amazon US, these age brackets go with the US schools. Amazon UK age brackets go with UK schools. So be a little bit aware of that. But no, just even looking at watches and shelves, you can sometimes see from five to nine years or whatever. So you know, know your age bracket, know the expected word count. Other than that, research, research is key. Pick your genre, pick your age brackets, stay with it, let your readers know who you are. An excellent place to join, actually, and speaking of organisations, the Society of Authors mine of information there as well. Also, there's the SEGI, the Scottish Children's Book Writers and Illustrators.
Speaker 1:there's also the SEGI Society.
Speaker 2:Scotland can't claim it before we get Scooby complaining, because it's an international organisation it is, and what's good about it is that each region around the world has their own sort of group. There's a lovely group here in Scotland. They do meetups, they do chats. They have their overall social media pages. They have their regional social media pages Full of hints and tips there. You can meet lots of people on there. Anyone starting out, I'd also say get on social media, be on social media, interact with other authors, interact with editors, interact with illustrators, get to know people, get your name out there. Just to be known in the lovely world is a great place to be. I would say anybody wanting to write, go for it. Absolutely go for it.
Speaker 1:I've got another question for you as well. Non-stop, this isn't it. I'm curious as to how you navigate the publishing process for children's picture books, things like finding a literary agent or a publisher, or building relationships in the industry, anything like that, really.
Speaker 2:It's difficult at the outset, but actually, the more you get into it, the more you learn. That's where the book I mentioned earlier is really quite invaluable. There are agents out there who, for instance, I write for children who are reluctant readers, or I just feel every child needs the chance to be able to read a book. You want to grab everyone. There are agents out there who specialise in that as well. It becomes easier if you follow the rules by finding the people that are on the same wavelength as you, the agents and publishers who are looking for what you are writing. That book is really important. Go to it. It's the one book that I will allow myself to write in because I have marker pens. I like to hear them everywhere in that book. It's allowed in that book, post-it notes sticking out of all the corners. Find the people who are on the same wavelength as you. Find the people who are aiming for the same audience as you. Be aware that if an agent or publisher already has somebody on their books, especially where you might be in start competition, they will not take you on, no matter how much they love your book. They will not put you up against a writer they have already signed. Don't always take a no as a negative. It can be that they have somebody else writing similarly. Therefore they will not take you on. I would say don't give up. I would say that any feedback if you submit to an agent or a publisher and it's a no but they come back with feedback, take that feedback on board. Look at that feedback. It might be right for you, it might be wrong for you. Absolutely take feedback on board.
Speaker 2:You're going to get rejection letters. You're going to get them. They make us stronger, they make us more determined. We learn almost from these rejection letters. If a rejection letter comes back and says you're not right for us at this time or that at the moment, don't take that one as a no. That's maybe been an interest. Keep that name to the side. Remember that name. If they say not at this time, but maybe in the future, something like that, that is not a no. You grab that and you keep those connections going.
Speaker 2:It's a world that's different for everybody. We all have different answers to this because we all have different experiences. It depends on the genre. You're right. I find children's books much easier, a world that's easier to navigate than I do my romantic suspense. But then I've learned a lot through the children's books. So I'm managing to sort of detour, sort of wiggle my way through the publishing world a little bit more expertly than I would have done perhaps in the romantic suspense genre now, because of what I've learned through writing children's books. But yeah, get to know your agents. Get to know your publishers. Get to know if some publishers won't take pictures directly it's got to be through an agent. But either way, get approach them via their first name. Get to know if they want email or post submissions. Get to know their rules. Follow their rules.
Speaker 1:Give it your best shot, Absolutely give it your best shot Give it your best shot. Give it your best shot. That's a great piece of advice. I love it. So, moving on to your books, can you tell us about your own picture books?
Speaker 2:Yes, the Fearing the Kettle has become a trilogy. So there's the Fearing the Kettle, there's the Fearing the Kettle's Christmas wish and the Fearing the Kettle gets magical. A bit of business head there popped to Christmas, one in the middle because it means that every Christmas you have a book to promote and you know we've to wear our business head hat just as much as we've to wear our author hat. But I say that mine are available for three to eight years. I don't do three to five or five to eight. I say three to eight purely because I've written them in such a way that they can be read to them a lovely bedtime story. But they're also there to help the reluctant readers, the year olds who may be reading at a six year old stage. I want to grasp them all. I want to help them all.
Speaker 2:So the language, the font, the colour of the font I didn't want black alongside my lovely fairy wispy pictures. I wanted a bit of colour. So it was looking at colours that wouldn't conflict with anyone who had any sort of visual impairment. My covers are tactile. Reluctant readers or children who have a sort of a lower attention span quite like to be touching things with their fingers as they're listening. So my covers are very tactile and they're very colourful and very bright and they're full of it's all about friendship, helping each other, looking after each other and being true to yourself.
Speaker 2:So Leona lives in a very unusual home. She lives in an archital. Her friends aren't a fan, but I won't give the plot away. But by the end, everyone loves her kettle and it's a safe place to be. I helped my two female characters and two male characters through working in the school. Gender equality I think that's often looked for. But yeah, they're selling around the world. The Fairy in the Kettle was published in 2016. It celebrated its fifth birthday in 2021 with a new cover and now the three books sit beautifully together. But, yeah, selling around the world still going strong. I go around schools throughout Scotland. I'm usually out and about with school events and Waterstones have really embraced these books, so I've done a lot of events within Waterstones with these books.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, you've told us where they can find the books. Where can my listeners find out more about you and your books?
Speaker 2:My website, wwwpollingtatecom, and I'm on social media. I'm Pauline Tate author on all social media, so just search for Pauline Tate author. I'm on Facebook, instagram, twitter, linkedin, the newsreads. I'm there, I'm about, I'm on everything. So just search Pauline Tate author and all the information is there. I keep my readers up to date with all my goings on social media Facebook and Instagram mostly and also there's my newsletter, which they can sign up to via my website, and all my my exciting news goes on there first.
Speaker 2:So any any new books you know the newsletter signed up to get the inside information first.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Well, thank you very much for spending time with us today, pauline, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much for having me along. I've really enjoyed it Now. It was great and I've learned a lot, and I'm sure my listeners will as well have a great day, you too. Thank you, wendy. That brings us to the end of another show. It was really good to have you on the show with me today. I'm Wendy H Jones and you can find me at wendahjjonescom. You can also find me on Patreon, where you can support me for as little as $3 a month, which is less than the price of a tea or coffee. You go to patreoncom, forward, slash wendahjjones. I'm also Wendy H Jones on Facebook, twitter, instagram and Pinterest. Thank you for joining me today, and I hope you found it both useful and interesting. Join me next week when I will have another cracking guest for you. Until then, have a good week and keep writing, keep reading and keep learning.